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I I I City of New Brighton September 13, 1983 Page Seven surplus of funds and yet the proposal was to cut benefits to the retirees. The City Attorney stated the Council would be acting on the second question as well as the first and that Council approval is necessary only when there is a change in benefits and unfunded liability. Councilmember Benke stated that the cost of not doing what the Relief Association was proposing was what was missing in the report, but that the proposed changes would keep the fund healthier and help in retention and recruitment of firemen. He further stated that more was being paid in now than is necessary to keep the fund healthy. He stated that he would like to know what the cost would be without cutting benefits to the retirees. He then indicated that the future retirees were bringing this change upon themselves but the former retirees were not involved in the voting on this and the Council must vote on their behalf. He further stated that before he would cast his vote he would like to know what those costs would be. Councilmember Schmidt stated that he understood the economic basis for the actuary to do some phased reduction of increases in regard to the affect on the plani anyone who retires today is protected by future members of the Fire- men's Relief Association from making further Bylaw changes by having a right to take a lump sum payment. Present retirees have received increases and monthly payments but we are changing what they are relying on from years past. Mr. Babbit stated that at the time of retirement they did have a choice. This action must be done at some point in time and this is the reason for initiating it. Councilmember Schmidt suggested that the actuary go back- wards and do a valuation on what that lump sum payment would be today. Councilmember Janecek stated if those fourteen retirees are allowed to take a lump sum payment now, it shouldn't hurt the fund, and that the actuary should look at that possibility. Mr. Harold Foley, 1301 Pike Lake Drive, stated he had served the Fire Department from 1960 to 1980, and that in 1967 they received the first increase in pensions. He requested that the Council table these proposals and take it under consideration, as he felt that since the retirees had no vote, the Council was their only hope.